Sad post

[Paul_Guraedy]

My friens, the departure of Brian (Adios) coincided with my visit to the Mt. Home Woodcarving Show and a visit with Donna Thomas. I mentioned my Snow Owl post on WCI. Her sad comment was, At Least You Can ! I can not. Since she can not post I will try and post for her in General Woodcarving

I have been thinking about the whole situation and decided to at least make some attempt at finding out what is happening. I posted the following in a letter to Fox Chapel Publishing.

Fox Chapel Publishing and the subsidiary Woodcarving Illustrated owes the thousands of current and former members a clarification. It should be published in their magazine ─ not in the form of a post on the Woodcarving Illustrated Forum! A few minutes ago the Forum listed 2 members and 65 guests on the site. Three years ago these numbers would have been at least double digits for members and the high triple digits for guests.

This site inadvertently encouraged online friendships with other woodcarvers. I became friends with a handful of carvers that I will never meet in person. But, I chat with them on a regular basis via skype, facebook, or email. It is a sad commentary on the state of the Forum than not a single one of these go there on a regular basis, some almost never post, and some have dropped themselves from membership (no formal way of saying I am no longer a member). This note is in response to another member saying, I Quit! This individual had posted over 7,000 times!

I will hang in here until the bitter end; with the hope that Fox Chapel really does intend to repair the site and return it to its former usefulness in the woodcarving world. The truly sad thing is that it has not been replaced. It is a retreating shadow, but still of great value to woodcarvers.

There is a void waiting to be filled. There are other lists but none are even closely comparable to WCI. I see only minimal economic value to an online forum such as WCI. There is the question of whether anything like it will ever happen again. It could just become a fond memory among those of us who dedicated our time to assist the forum and help other woodcarvers ─ especially those new to this wonderful hobby.

For the many of us who value the forum and support Fox Chapel ─ through subscriptions and recommending their books to others ─ we need to know that the dying forum is not a waste of our time.

I believe that there should be a simple statement, placed in Woodcarving Illustrated Magazine indicating ─ Fox Chapel is absolutely dedicated to restoring the Woodcarving Illustrated Forum to a functioning site.

[pallin]

Re: Sad post

It occurred to me that Brian (Robson Valley) has been writing about the fire tragedy in Fort McMurray, Alberta. Perhaps the losses became too much.
Sometimes the things lost can be rebuilt, but it takes dedication on the part of many. Even this WCI site can be rebuilt if enough woodcarvers care. Is it raining yet?

[Magicman]

Re: Sad post

Paul I agree with you completely, I use to spend about two hours a day on this forum. I really enjoyed looking at the various photos and going back through the archives and searching. You could always post a question and there would be many replies to try to help you. I don\'t understand why WCI is not more forthcoming in what is happening. All that is ever said is that they are working on the Scrollsaw forum and I think that the Carving Forum should be just as important. As far as the programmers that are working on this problem, they either need more of them or they need to get new ones!
Just my two cents worth.
Larry (Magicman)

[Paul_Guraedy]

Re: Sad post

It is my opinion that folks are leaving WCI only partially because of the frustrations caused trying to post, post photos, view photos, inability to search, etc. I believe the main reason most are leaving is the lack of any encouragement from the owners that they actually intend to keep the forum going.

Larry, I absolutely agree with your view. Both of my son s occupations are with computers, one an IT Specialist and the other a Software Engineer (programmer). The latter just changed jobs, leaving a company that existed solely to build and maintain computer programs for other companies. He is still doing the same type of work but for a single company.

My oldest son said, We would end our contract with any software engineer who could not remedy this situation in the time elapsed.

My youngest son stated it more succinctly, The software engineers working on this program are either incompetent or they are not working on it with any degree of dedication.

[papasar]

Re: Sad post

I was a programmer analyst for 30yrs and worked for the #1 vendor of financial info. If you saw any pics of stock or commodity exchanges we were the ones providing the info being displayed. This seems to have been handled wrong from the gitgo. Never heard anyone accept reponsibility only finger pointing.

[Neil A. Ward]

Re: Sad post

Paul,

I agree: not much encouragement.

Neil

[sappy]

Re: Sad post

It is my understanding that the problem lies with the old forum format and priority programming. I am not a computer person, this is just my understanding. That leaves me to wonder why they did not start a new forum from scratch and just bring over the tutorials until they could figure out how to incorporate everything else. At least we would have a workable forum. And maybe it would not be sounding so much like an empty barrel right now. Pretty soon, new people will be logging on and no one will around to welcome them.

[Arthur C.]

Re: Sad post

Your letter was beautifully written, Paul. For many of us, this forum was our carving club. I\\\\\\\'ve searched the web, and have found nothing to compare to it.

I think Fox must have come to the conclusion that there is not a sufficient dollar benefit in continuing to underwrite the forum.

Sad.

[Bob K.]

Re: Sad post

You couldn\'t have said it better, Paul. I too am totally frustrated with the lack of response and effort shown by WCI to fix the problem. This whole thing has gone on way too long and there doesn\'t seem to be any sense of urgency on the part of the owners. It\'s no wonder at all that so many great people have given up and left. I too gave up a while back for a few months but came back mostly to show my support for the forum. Even with the technical problems that exist, the forum itself is not at all the same, however. Almost all of the great carvers I became friends with here have gone, and it\'s a shame that whenever I start a thread that there are bearly 6 members that reply/post to my thread. Back in the day I would get more like 24 replies.

And while I\'m venting I\'d like to mention something else. Earlier this year I submitted to Mindy Kinsey, the editor of WCI, an article I wrote that I thought showed a great little beginner\'s project to be published in a future issue of the magazine. I got no reply from her. After 2 weeks I contacted Bob D. (who I think is a great guy, by the way) about the problem. He apparently mentioned it to Mindy and she answered me within 2 days. At that time she told me she would present my article to the editorial staff and get back to me. That was 3 months ago! I\'ve finally given up and said \"to hell with it\". Even if they thought my article was not worthy of publishing the least Mindy could have done was let me know. Maybe WCI already has enough contributors! Needless to say, I don\'t think much of her ability as an editor. Her lack of attention to the matter has left me with an even more sour taste in my mouth with WCI.

I am generally not a quitter but I am within a hair of giving up hope and leaving for good. The forum in its present state is hardly worth belonging to.

[Bob K.]

Re: Sad post

Your letter was beautifully written, Paul. For many of us, this forum was our carving club. I\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'ve searched the web, and have found nothing to compare to it.

I think Fox must have come to the conclusion that there is not a sufficient dollar benefit in continuing to underwrite the forum.

Sad.

I totally agree, Arthur.

[Robert Cahill]

Re: Sad post

This was also a carving club to me. I mentioned before that the lack of interest in fixing the forum was about the time the competitor went under. Well all good things must end. I am thankful I was here when it was working at its peak.

[BobD (Archive)]

Re: Sad post

You are 100% correct. I have dropped the ball. I have not kept the forum in the loop, or at least posted regularly that we are still interested in keeping the forum running. That is my fault, and I am deeply sorry.

Rather that burying my update in this post, though, I\'ll make a separate post to maximize the visibility.

Bob

[Paul_Guraedy]

Re: Sad post

Thank you Bob. Donna and I were discussing the fate of WCI. We agreed in feeling that you would end up as the sacrificial lamb for the forum folding. Your plate is more than full and we respect that.

We have had so many of our members leaving that I have to ask, Is it not possible to mention the forum and WCI being dedicated to its restoration in the magazine? This would give everyone hope and possiby inspire some of our lost members to return.

Even in its difficult to use form, the forum is still the best thing going for woodcarving. I include other internet attempts, books and periodicals. There is simply no match for the expertise that is available to both newcomers and us supposed advanced carvers in any medium that comes close to the forum.

I value the friends that I have made on the forum which includes you. I follow you on Facebook; but, judging by the number of your friends, I refrain from posting as experience has taught me that too many posts is not a good thing. It has been interesting following your family as the children mature.

[squbrigg]

Re: Sad post

A good post Paul, a long time coming. You and I have talked about this subject many times, and I feel bad for WCI, they are losing so many solid members. But, much time has passed, and excuses only go so far. There seems to be so many problems with the programming, I don\'t know if their IT contractor is up to it. Hell, I\'m signed in and all, but have a window telling me \"You are not permitted to reply, You are not permitted too post new threads, You are not permitted to post attachments, You are not permitted ...!\" and yet I\'m regarded as a Super Moderator ...? Don\'t make much sense.

BobD, I sure hope you are right, and that WCI is still interested in saving the forum. Cause, up to this point, it sure don\'t look like it.

Bob

[Soggy]

Re: Sad post

Well said Paul ! I\'m one who jumped ship early but today I was contacted by a former member telling me that he believed that things were improving here on the WCI forum so i\'ve decided to have a look . Hopefully this will be a fun place to visit again instead of the PITA that the \"New and Improved \" forum proved to be.
I\'ll drop by from time to time to see how things are going and contribute when I can
Wayne