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  • Enforcing laws

    This is way off topic, but it's something that I would suspect is on many folks minds. Plus, I know that there are several retired law enforcement folks on this board that may have an opinion. Christmas eve as I was driving on the freeway with my 8 year old grand daughter, and it seemed that everyone else was passing us, this conversation took place between us. "Why are you driving so slow Papa?" I was driving 65 mph, which is what I told her - plus that it was the speed limit. "But Papa, everybody knows that you can drive 5 mph over the speed limit and it's OK". OK heres my concern. Does everyone feel this way? Sure looks like it. What about stop lights and stop signs? A rolling stop ok? Everybody seems to be doing it. If traffic officers do not ticket these "little law breakers" it becomes common practice. But the big question is does the lack of enforcement carry over to other areas of crime? It's really not stealing, it's only a candy bar. What are we teaching our kids when we do not enforce the laws on the books. I won't even mention illigal immigration...Thanks, Tom H
    http://beginnerscarvingcorner.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    Re: Enforcing laws

    I wish they would enforce the cell phone law I see 3 out of ten cars with someone with a cellphone stuck to there head.
    I ride a bicycle and have had several close calls from driver inattention.

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    • #3
      Re: Enforcing laws

      Of course, the correct answer is to obey all laws and if you don't think one is right, try to change it through legal means. BUT...my insurance agent gave me a brochure on safety once. It said, passing is when many accidents happen and that going with the flow of traffic is far safer, statistically, than going slower or faster than the flow of traffic.
      Rolling stops and running red lights is clearly dangerous and violates someone else's rights and can easily become negligent homicide.
      Balancing "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" with others' rights and public safety shouldn't be that hard if we remember the Golden Rule and care about others, think, "How would that feel if someone did that to me?"
      It's easy to blame it on the times and people raised without rules or guidance. I know language and behavior over-all seems to have gone down hill since I was a boy, but I still see young men, women, boys and girls doing acts of kindness, friendly smiles, politeness that comes from somewhere inside, maybe not taught by parents. I'm very impressed with 20-somethings as a whole! I never thought I'd say that about them 5 to 10 years ago. But they're serving their Country, helping the world, working, contributing to society...maybe more than my age group did in their 20's! I remember Mao Tse Tung and Attilla the Hun! (not personally) The Dark Ages, World Wars, Bubonic Plague, Yellow Fever, genocide at every door of history. Human nature is a terrible thing left to run amok. We obviously need laws and law enforcement.
      "Live and Love as Best as You Know How,
      For the Best of Times is Now!"
      I don't remember who I'm quoting, but I believe it and live by it.
      I think you're right, Tom, to teach your Grandson respect for the letter of the law. And there's no doubt that violating the little things makes it easier to "justify" bigger things. But don't you just hate the guy who gets in the passing lane and holds the letter of the law speed limit trying to force everyone to do the "right" thing while everyone else is braking to avoid a wreck?
      Everyone has to choose their path and then pay the price for it. Hopefully they don't harm others with their choices!
      Wade

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      • #4
        Re: Enforcing laws

        Its sad that an 8 year granddaughter would know or care about something like that! Whatever happened to letting kids have their childhood? you are right...the law is the law, unless of course you are in politics, a lawyer, a judge , a member of the aclu, a dirtbag, on and on! On the other hand Wade is somewhat right too in going with the flow of traffic, but that does not assure a safe trip, if you are exceeding the speed limit and are involved in an accident, chances are you are going to get cited for speeding...and if there is a civil trial, you know your excess speed with be brought up......so follow the law and the speed limits....if nothing else , you don't have to panic when you see a patrol car go by lol all this in my useless but personal opinion ha ha
        "Lif iz lik a box "o" choc lets, ya nevr kno whut yull git!"

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        • #5
          Re: Enforcing laws

          Yep, It is sad. I come from a law enforcement family on both sides and I remember conversaions after conversaions with my uncle's and Grandfather. Basic, The laws are only as good as those obeying them. Sad indeed. Have I ever broke the speed law, Yes, but when I get caught it will be no one elses hard luck but my own. Don't get me wrong, I don't go out od my way to break laws but have and probably will. Everyone had broke laws at one time or the other.
          Rolling stops and running red or even yellow lights. Nope, I haven't. I have Been saluted (if you catch my drift)
          from drivers in back of me cause I didn't go through a yellow light.

          Supreme Court of 1992 when a store own was brought to trial after shooting a guy who was trying to rob him. That law wanted this man in jail because The officer were there to protect him(yeah right)but the Supreme rulled that those laww officers were there to protect the populace and not nessasary the individual. The store owner charges were dismissed. Of course this was back in an area that had and had more gun control than any other city in the US. Goes to show , Gun control does not work.
          Hope I have not offend anyone but then, I don't go out of my way to break laws.

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          • #6
            Re: Enforcing laws

            About rolling stops........
            My son was a tracy policeman, he was watching a stop sign when a car came up to the stop sign and did one of california rolling stops. my son turned on his red lights and pulled the guy over. and started to give the guy a ticket. this guy put up a really big arguement about how a rolling slow stop is the SAME as a complete stop. he would not shut up about the two stops. So my son pulled the guy out of the car and took his billy club and started to beat this guy, he beat on him for about 4 min. ....then asked him ......do you want me to slow down or do you want me to stop beating you.
            there is a difference. lol only kidding

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            • #7
              Re: Enforcing laws

              yep "rolling stop" doesn't compute, or you rolling or stopped lolWink
              "Lif iz lik a box "o" choc lets, ya nevr kno whut yull git!"

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              • #8
                Re: Enforcing laws

                OK, here's my take on the whole thing......I retired after 25 years on the road as a Trooper.....no desk work or supervisory duties. Michigan troops have general law enforcement powers so are not restricted to traffic law enforcement, but that IS a big part of the job.

                Most of the time, officers will ignore violations of less than 10 mph over teh limit......most of the time. It ain't a hard and fast rule, but the reasoning is that when stopping someone for less than that, there will be a far greater violation occuring while that stop is being made. Did you ever notice the increase in traffic speed just past where an officer has a vehicle stopped? Folks just figure he's going to be tied up for a while so.......

                That said, speed violation tickets were highly dependent on traffic and weather conditions, so a lot of the time slower violations were written up.

                Highway speeds were generally given more leeway than speed limits in town. Shouldn't take much to figure that reasoning out.

                And I'll admit it.....some days I JUST WOKE UP CRANKY! Never made up a charge, but called things pretty close to the vest on those days.

                I enforced heavilly those "rolling stops", because it's just a bad habit to get into. A lot of intersection accidents occur because someone usually rolls through, but this time, someone was coming and the habit just took over.

                Same with passing in a no passing zone...no breaks here. You pass in a no pass zone and you are taking MY life in YOUR hands. Ticket time!

                I spent a lot of my career doing accident reconstruction, so had a pretty good handle on the physics and psychology of the chain of events leading up to an accident, and the resultant carnage due to those factors. Also, it was my job to knock on the door and tell parents, that Jr. wasn't coming home any more because some citizen in a hurry came to a "rolling stop". Try doing that two or three times a month for 25 years and see if your attitude toward these minor violations changes.

                I drive my wife nuts because I stick pretty darn close to the speed limit. Had enough years of fast driving in heavy traffic.

                Well, that's my 2 cents worth...

                Al

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                • #9
                  Re: Enforcing laws

                  I never had the experience of 25 yrs as a policeman, but 10 yrs on a tow truck, reminds me of the necessity of obeying the rules of the road.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Enforcing laws

                    Thanks al for the insight. Listening to uncles and Grandfather in laws and other family members who were Police officers, it is interesting to understand their logic on traffic laws and laws in general. Theirs were a little tougher as anything 6 miles per hour and higher over the speed limit, Ticket time. Their usual sayins where,'ya going to a fire" or "where ya going". Do I speed ? Yes! not all the time but more highway than city. My pet peive is drunks. Lock them up and throw away the keys. Let them rot! To many innocent lives ruined by them.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Enforcing laws

                      Thanks Al, makes a lotta sense to me....In our local newpaper they post every accident and the cause and the names of the folks involved. I am amazed at the number of accidents caused by stop sign and red light running. Current trends and practices put a whole new meaning to defensive driving...Tom H
                      http://beginnerscarvingcorner.blogspot.com/

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                      • #12
                        Re: Enforcing laws

                        Im crazy enough to ride a motorcycle on todays hi-ways. Even though I know I am over the speed limit I stay with the flow of traffic in any given situation. I scan all the way around my vehicle every 7 seconds And constantly am accesing my level of danger. Motorcycles don't stop as fast as cars, Try leaving a safe stopping distance between yourself and the vehicle in front of you. Two to three cars will pull into that gap. Cell phones and driving don't mix. When I can here the Radio of the car in front me I know that vehicle is one I don't need to contend with. People don't secure things in pickup trucks or on trailers. Ive dodged more than my share of debris. Falling from a pick up. I opt to ride so I have to keep a good attiude, Give up my right away even though I leagaly have it and just laugh at the idots on the road instead of getting mad at them.
                        Goody
                        Pic is of picnic we threw over the shop for both our woodcarving freinds and biker buddies. Now the post is woodcarving related!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Enforcing laws

                          Can I have my pick of those little ol hawgs? lol
                          "Lif iz lik a box "o" choc lets, ya nevr kno whut yull git!"

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                          • #14
                            Re: Enforcing laws

                            An awesome sight.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Enforcing laws

                              Having spent a hockey sock full of years in law enforcement and have written my fair share of tickets. I will comment on this from a police officers perspective. Here in Canada there are certainly not as many police officers on the road as in the US. Having said that, if you are running radar and stopping everyone over the limit in this country you would have to stop every driver. I have travelled extensivly in the US and Canada and we as Canadians drive much too fast. The average freeway speed in this country I would estimate at 80MPH. If you are travelling at that speed most cars are passing you. So when I was doing traffic duty I would target the erratic drivers doing multiple lane changes at high speed. Then once you have one pulled over you are right everyone then realizes you are busy and increase their speed. The problem is too many offenders and not enough officers. They took photo radar out of this country but it is my feeling that they should put it back it sure slowed everyone down. Also what they do here on busy weekends is to place an unmanned police car on the centre medium that also slows people down but unfortunatly is is short lived once they realize it is a decoy. It is always an ongoing problem and traffic duty these days doesnt seem to be a priority.
                              Just my two cents worth.
                              Colin
                              Jim - The Doing is as much fun as the Viewing!
                              Jackson, MS

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