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  • Its linden not basswood.

    Found a very interesting discussion on the internet.... about Beavercraft wood blocks selling as basswood in a debate about its not basswood. Beavercraft wood comes from Ukraine which has lime or linden trees. If you want to try out linden looks like a good deal? It is noted often environment plays a major role in woods of the same species as noted by LBlake ....
    while both basswood and European lime/linden are the same species trees (linden), the climate and soil must make a difference. Thought I would share my observations. I have found that they both are smooth, and take detail nicely. However, I have consistently found lime a bit harder and stronger. I could also bring it to a nice, polished finish, but I didn't have as much success with basswood. I'm sure some pieces really are alike, but I have both talked to others. who have worked with both, and tried enough of each now to be convinced that what I observed is more the norm. Hope that helps someone.
    My question anyone tried out this compared quoted basswood vs Linden. One thing I hate about basswood is the fact that it gets the fuzzies plus stronger is better in my book opinions.... Does anyone note of wisdom on this subject????.
    . Explore! Dream! Discover!ā€ aloha Di

  • #2
    Many have noted the differences between southern and northern basswood from sources in the U.S. Perhaps all species of wood will vary depending on soil, weather, and other growing conditions. Brian often emphasizes the importance of ring count (per inch of thickness). When it comes to carving, very slight variations can make the difference between fun and misery. Moisture content?

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    • #3
      Strange you mentioned that. where I purchased my Basswood, there were two different colors? my selection looked like the others I had in the past, the other was Yellow? Perhaps I should go back and get the other one??
      But a great thought too. as there is a wood "types" web site that should be able to tell you more. And as folks here wake up ? HA. info will roll in.
      Chuck
      Chuck
      Always hoping for a nice slice that won't need sanding!

      https://woodensmallthings.blogspot.com/2021/01/

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      • #4
        I think is reasonable that there are minor differences. I have never carved lime wood but we all know that climate and other factors effect wood by any name. That said I have experience significant variation in basswood even though it was all provided by the same mill. A few years back in particular I did a fly fisherman in basswood that took detail exceptionally wee and when I applied tung oil it took on a color approaching mahogany. I think at some level there could be some distinction but for the average carver making Santa ornaments it seems to me something one really does not need to concern themselves with. Iā€™m certainly not planning to import lime wood when I have a mill processing basswood 200 miles down the road.

        C6F46A70-0DA0-4274-B2F6-2ED33331B852.jpg

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DiLeon View Post
          Found a very interesting discussion on the internet.... about Beavercraft wood blocks selling as basswood in a debate about its not basswood. Beavercraft wood comes from Ukraine which has lime or linden trees. If you want to try out linden looks like a good deal? It is noted often environment plays a major role in woods of the same species as noted by LBlake ....

          My question anyone tried out this compared quoted basswood vs Linden. One thing I hate about basswood is the fact that it gets the fuzzies plus stronger is better in my book opinions.... Does anyone note of wisdom on this subject????.
          https://www.wood-database.com/european-lime/
          Here is one.
          C
          Chuck
          Always hoping for a nice slice that won't need sanding!

          https://woodensmallthings.blogspot.com/2021/01/

          Comment


          • #6
            We are dealing with a small group of closely related species, spread all over the globe.
            From that, I'd say that the wood anatomy (maybe not wood chemistry)will be very similar.
            Moisture content in a retailed block is likely different. Lots of different species go from cheese to bone when they dry out, like willow and alder, coconut shell is another.

            Linden and Basswood are two locally common names for species of Tilia.

            Farrar: Trees of Canada has a brief discussion of the European mix of species. No mention of which one grows as far east as Ukraine.

            Brian T

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Brian T View Post
              We are dealing with a small group of closely related species, spread all over the globe.
              From that, I'd say that the wood anatomy (maybe not wood chemistry)will be very similar.
              Moisture content in a retailed block is likely different. Lots of different species go from cheese to bone when they dry out, like willow and alder, coconut shell is another.

              Linden and Basswood are two locally common names for species of Tilia.

              Farrar: Trees of Canada has a brief discussion of the European mix of species. No mention of which one grows as far east as Ukraine.
              There are about 16 species of Tila....if they are so much alike why are they classed differently...sorry I am not educated in this subject. Why is two different species being classed the same thing just in a different area in this case American and European? It appears when you look at each classification they do not look alike in science and if they are not alike then they would not perform the same for example a wood carving? I know here all depending on where the tree grows, soil health, microclimate changes wood structure hardness, strength and etc.... but it is still classed as one and the same kind of wood name. Not a related country it grows in? What are the guidelines for one type of tree next to the other, when you change the name but keep it under the same species, for example, is just under the microscope?.
              . Explore! Dream! Discover!ā€ aloha Di

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              • #8
                Dileon, the people who said that, did that, are just plain wrong. Ignoranti.

                Tilia americana is NOT T. vulgaris and those are not T. europaea which is not T. platyphyllos.

                One thing which is different for every plant species is the detailed structure of the flowers,
                no matter what all else you might look at. In angiosperm (broad-leaf) trees, the differences in wood anatomy under the microscope is a lot like fingerprints: no two the same.

                The bigger puzzles are with the conifers, trying to tell the pines apart (wood) is almost guess-work.
                Same goes for spruces.
                Brian T

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                • #9
                  Do a search on "species differentiation" and you may gain some appreciation for the task of separating one tree type from another.

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                  • #10
                    You need radial, transverse and tangential sections, no thicker than 15 micrometers.
                    Best if you can do all the prep and microscope slide preparation as well.
                    I have kept my collection of some 300 species on slides.

                    I got called on for all sorts of wood ID things like a Paleolithic mammoth BBQ (what wood was in the fire?) Did Henry Ford use all the same species of wood in his Model A and what was it? Tree roots blocking a sewer: who was liable for excavation and repairs?

                    A piece about the size of 1/2 a wooden match stick is enough.
                    Brian T

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                    • #11
                      Don't get me started, Brian. Henry Ford had all but eliminated wood in auto body construction by the fall 1927 when the Model A* was introduced. Even in the waning years of the Model T the only wood remaining in the bodies was tack strips for the roof & interior fabrics. It was much easier to fit stamped steel parts together than to fit individually-cut (and variable) wood pieces. But stamping machines were expensive, so low production body types (like Convertible Cabriolets & Fordors) continued to have wood framing and sill members. In fact, most of those low production cars were built for Ford by Briggs or Murray under contract. Ford Station Wagons were built of hard maple with birch plywood paneling in upper Michigan.
                      *It was actually introduced as "the New Ford" - the Model A appellation came from a miss-reading of the parts number catalog.

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                      • #12
                        That's interesting. Maybe the wood samples I got were from a Model T? So long ago, I can only remember the restorer and being given a bunch of wood samples to look over. The outside of the car was all metal. Wheel spoke, dash board, seat frame and some part of a door? They were all red oak (Quercus rubra) or some other closely related species in the "red oak" group. Given the open porosity of red oaks, I'm surprised that it was used for wheels.
                        Brian T

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                        • #13
                          OK OK OK,, Kind of got off the subject huh kids? Henry Ford, had to recall many of his cars .. because of the "Spanish Moss" filler in the seats.. HAD BUGs.. But I agree with Brian about the Red Oak in the Wheels? That was a good one there. Now .?
                          Next.
                          And Thanks DiLeon for this delightful conversation.
                          Chuck
                          Chuck
                          Always hoping for a nice slice that won't need sanding!

                          https://woodensmallthings.blogspot.com/2021/01/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wood-spoked wheels were completely phased out when Ford introduced the "new Ford" - the 1928 to 1931 cars were all manufactured with steel-spoked wheels.
                            I accept the blame for this off topic excursion. LOL

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                            • #15

                              I found this in a search thanks for the info from everyone.....Basswood is a synonym for the American linden tree (Tilia Americana). While North Americans often call any tree of the genus Tilia a "basswood," Europeans call these same trees "lindens" or "lime trees." It is best to call only the American native species a basswood, but it has become a colloquial name loosely assigned to any tree known as a linden. Depending on species, these basswoods are best grown in USDA zones 3 through 8.


                              Amazon has Beavercraft blocks...looks like I am going to have to do my own testing.... clearly here at home I got American Basswood and European Linden from Ukraine from Amazon. 19 dollars and free shipping. See what is the difference if any.

                              81EX1Q4oyZL._AC_SL1500_.jpg



                              For anyone interested, this is the terminology
                              Family Single or group of genera that closely or uniformly resemble each other in general appearance and technical character Aceraceae
                              Genus A group of tree species that have fundamental traits in common but that differ in other, lesser characteristics Maple (Common Name)
                              Acer (Scientific Name)
                              Species A natural group of trees in the same genus made up of similar individuals Red Maple
                              Acer rubrum
                              Variety A subdivision of a species having a distinct, though often inconspicuous, difference and breeding true to that difference Acer rubrum var. drummondi
                              Cultivar A variety, selected for one or more outstanding characteristics, that is being cultivated and usually reproduced by asexual means to preserve genetic makeup Acer rubrum 'Autumn Flame'
                              . Explore! Dream! Discover!ā€ aloha Di

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