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  • usefull burner features from users

    being a little confused by the hype of different companys making clames of higher wattage and better tips,

    other companys say its all hype, becuse the way they measure the wattage draw at the wall plug in, not whats delevered to the nib..

    maybe we can all benifit from telling

    what burner we own and the features we like as well as the short commings of particular units, favorite nibs and tips as there is surely hundreds of them to choose from...

    1. whats the best brand for begainers or someone that wants to really get into pyrography.

    2.Whats the general concensus on handpieces

    3. is a fixed tip better than replacable tips?
    its surely more expencive according to razortip site.

    4. whats the best tip for fine detail?

  • #2
    Re: usefull burner features from users

    Originally posted by Thomp
    being a little confused by the hype of different companys making clames of higher wattage and better tips,

    other companys say its all hype, becuse the way they measure the wattage draw at the wall plug in, not whats delevered to the nib..

    maybe we can all benifit from telling

    what burner we own and the features we like as well as the short commings of particular units, favorite nibs and tips as there is surely hundreds of them to choose from...

    1. whats the best brand for begainers or someone that wants to really get into pyrography.

    2.Whats the general concensus on handpieces

    3. is a fixed tip better than replacable tips?
    its surely more expencive according to razortip site.

    4. whats the best tip for fine detail?
    Well, I don't make the burners but I do sell some of them. I sell both Razertip and Burnmaster but use the Razertip most of the time. I also use one of those cheap single-temperature burners as well. I've used most all the brands but like the Razertip dual output the best, although I'm learning a new respect for my Wall Lenk single temperature burner . I might suggest that you look at my website. I have a tutorial (click on the link to Pyrography 101 tutorials) on the Razertip pens and it includes information on fixed tip vs interchangeable tips. It also has information on the various pens, uses, etc. I only use and sell the fixed tip although when I first started I was talked into (by the vendor) buying interchangeable and I hated them.....Sad

    Yes, each company makes it's own claims. That's marketing.

    One of the most popular pens I sell for fine detail is the F1S and F7S. It also depends on what you are going to do with your burning as to what will work best for you. I use the HD5MP bent spear shader for practically EVERYTHING I do. Every portrait, the golden eagle, everything is done from start to finish (except the signature) with this pen. Even the tiny details in the eyes, etc. IT's all in the technique and learning what you can do with each pen. I also use a writing tip or small ball tip for writing and a rounded-heel knife (#14) for very fine crisp lines that I can't achieve with the side of my shader. Apple

    Don't get hung up on the wattage claims. Most of the detail burners are about the same and the only burner I know that claims to go hotter than everyone else....well what the heck do you need to go to 2000 degrees anyway. I have never gone even close. Even when I want to burn black backgrounds I use my cheap single temperature burner that goes to 1000 degrees and that's fine!!!!

    The key to a good burning that will not fade over time is to burn in layers, darkening one layer at a time and burning deep. When you burn at a very high temperature in one fell swoop you are burning the surface only. The other thing is that if you burn at that high a temperature you will wear out your pens prematurely and have to buy replacements. The only tips that can withstand such high temperatures for extended periods are those thick solid-point copper pens on those cheap single temperature burners. None of the detail burners can do that without damaging the tips eventually. You do not want them to be poker hot despite what some companies claim.

    Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes here but I am a pyrographer, not a carver. That's what I do and my comments are based on my own humble personal and professional opinion. Mobster

    Nedra

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: usefull burner features from users

      Thanks Nedra,

      pardon me, i tend to be blunt and argumentive at times, please believe me im not trying to be in any way in this reply,

      I was reccomended a nibsburner, the entry level About $59.00-79.00 depending where you look. 115 model i think, but after looking at what was available, i question if thats what i want...
      i do want something versatle and sometimes yes the money is the object, when your retired or on fixed income. or just cheap. but i understand just like cars options cost more. you have to weigh the need for the options especially if your not in the knowledge cliche of a particular feature.
      the Comments you provided are what I and others need to base opinions on, maybe others will appreciate the information as much as I do to make an informed decision on which equipments are best suited for the applications...

      my experiance with woodburning, is yep I branded wood with hot metal and burnt it with them kid wood burners that look like a screwdriver.. other than poking at the wood with a red hot screwdriver.
      but I do think the burning experience with a professional pyrograpgic station will be quite a difference and an enhancement to anybody's artistic skills. it would be more like sketching, which gives power to create and control I would believe.

      maybe carving and pyrography combination might be a way to achieve the scenery..
      many folks, myself included, have so many times bought an item only to find for a few bucks more we could have got a better item, Without knowledge of a new item to a person the problem is the person dont know what they will need to begain with.

      moral its not always best to buy cheap,
      but on the other hand its foolish to toss your hard earned bucks into the wind for the big brass ring
      when the lesser item will suffice for your needs...
      classic case is battery operated tools. drills and saws.

      Your comments on the fixed pens being best is what I was going to make my decision on, based simply on they have less connections, and less weaker electrical links.

      As I understand the weak links in a pyrography station cause heat build up in the faulty connections thus drawing power heat and preformance from the nib...
      in this aspect it seams logical that the perminate mounted pen would out perform the replaceable nibs over time,

      as the press on connections would corrode with oxide eventually and require cleaning to make better contact.. cleaning causes wear, loosening the connection further...

      im not looking at the long term maintence of handpieces as a pyrography user-artist?
      I am looking at it from the perspective of metal properties, heat-cooled cycles and what happens in time here on the working end..

      As I see it thusfar the units are pretty much basically built the same, they all have transformers, a few differences like power amperage-wattage ratings, better switches, lights, dual outlets and bigger wire in the leads. differs with cost. and different garentees. but what really counts?.

      thomp

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: usefull burner features from users

        Originally posted by Thomp
        Thanks Nedra,

        pardon me, i tend to be blunt and argumentive at times, please believe me im not trying to be in any way in this reply,

        I was reccomended a nibsburner, the entry level About $59.00-79.00 depending where you look. 115 model i think, but after looking at what was available, i question if thats what i want...
        i do want something versatle and sometimes yes the money is the object, when your retired or on fixed income. or just cheap. but i understand just like cars options cost more. you have to weigh the need for the options especially if your not in the knowledge cliche of a particular feature.
        the Comments you provided are what I and others need to base opinions on, maybe others will appreciate the information as much as I do to make an informed decision on which equipments are best suited for the applications...
        my experiance with woodburning, is yep I branded wood with hot metal and burnt it with them kid wood burners that look like a screwdriver.. other than poking at the wood with a red hot screwdriver.
        but I do think the burning experience with a professional pyrograpgic station will be quite a difference and an enhancement to anybody's artistic skills. it would be more like sketching, which gives power to create and control I would believe.

        maybe carving and pyrography combination might be a way to achieve the scenery..
        many folks, myself included, have so many times bought an item only to find for a few bucks more we could have got a better item, Without knowledge of a new item to a person the problem is the person dont know what they will need to begain with.

        moral its not always best to buy cheap,
        but on the other hand its foolish to toss your hard earned bucks into the wind for the big brass ring
        when the lesser item will suffice for your needs...
        classic case is battery operated tools. drills and saws.
        Your comments on the fixed pens being best is what I was going to make my decision on, based simply on they have less connections, and less weaker electrical links.

        As I understand the weak links in a pyrography station cause heat build up in the faulty connections thus drawing power heat and preformance from the nib...
        in this aspect it seams logical that the perminate mounted pen would out perform the replaceable nibs over time,

        as the press on connections would corrode with oxide eventually and require cleaning to make better contact.. cleaning causes wear, loosening the connection further...

        im not looking at the long term maintence of handpieces as a pyrography user-artist?
        I am looking at it from the perspective of metal properties, heat-cooled cycles and what happens in time here on the working end..

        As I see it thusfar the units are pretty much basically built the same, they all have transformers, a few differences like power amperage-wattage ratings, better switches, lights, dual outlets and bigger wire in the leads. differs with cost. and different garentees. but what really counts?.

        thomp
        Thomp I can't say anything good, bad or indifferent about the Nibsburner. I have never tried it. They were supposed to send me one to try but they never did. I will NEVER make any statements or opinions on something I have never used myself. So, I refrain from commenting but I will say that 115 watts is not much and I wonder if you would be happy with that. Yes, it's cheap but as you pointed out is it worth buying cheap and then having to to upgrade later.

        I did that route when I started burning and had many regrets. Yes, all burners are basically the same...a transformer but some have more power than others.

        Whether you are going to use it part-time or full-time be sure you are getting one that you will be happy with for the long haul so you don't have to upgrade later when you are frustrated with the lack of power. You don't need one that burns 2000 degrees but somewhere in the middle. What counts with me is the company that stands behind the product and that's not the retailer, it's the manufacturer. Now of course if you get a good product you should have to deal with them but god forbid if you do, you want a company that provides good customer service, is good to deal with and that is one of my critieria in considering whether I will buy from them. Guarantee is another important thing. Most have 1 year against manufacturing defects only. Most do not have any warranty on the pens. Those are important considerations in my opinion, not just price and features. Mobster Let's face it...they all have temperature dials, they all heat up about the same...so what's going to be the difference between a good burner and a better one???? Happy

        Nedra

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: usefull burner features from users

          ok then take me out of all this confusion..

          if brand x and brand y can use the same tips,
          brand x is a 50 watt unit
          brand y is a 130 watt unit

          how are the nibs rated... ???

          on nibsburner mnf site they say their tips can muster 2000 degreese but reccomend 700 degreese for burning... to prolong the life of the nibs..

          razortip dont say...

          i can see how brand x wont have power enough to deliver scorching 1500 degree tempatures for long before it overheats or burns up.

          where the brand y has that much power at a lower settings and more in reserve if you need it without damaging the unit.

          or am i just mudding up the water here with my line of thought

          are the nibs rated for amperage wattage ?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: usefull burner features from users

            My experience is limited to Dial-A-Temp and the el-cheapo kid's burners. However, The Dial-A-Temp does have a variable dial and does burn good. Only problem it used copper and brass tips lsimular to the el cheapos. No nice knife tips or shaders. Have used it on some carvings.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: usefull burner features from users

              Originally posted by Thomp
              ok then take me out of all this confusion..

              if brand x and brand y can use the same tips,
              brand x is a 50 watt unit
              brand y is a 130 watt unit

              how are the nibs rated... ???

              on nibsburner mnf site they say their tips can muster 2000 degreese but reccomend 700 degreese for burning... to prolong the life of the nibs..

              razortip dont say...

              i can see how brand x wont have power enough to deliver scorching 1500 degree tempatures for long before it overheats or burns up.

              where the brand y has that much power at a lower settings and more in reserve if you need it without damaging the unit.

              or am i just mudding up the water here with my line of thought

              are the nibs rated for amperage wattage ?
              To my knowledge the tips are not rated for a particular amperage/wattage. Specific questions regarding this should actually be addressed by the manufacturers. I would suggest if possible to get Cam (Razertip) here to answer this question. I know I use his tips on both his burner and the Burnmaster which is 130 watts and have no problem. Of course I also don't crank up the temperature to the limit. Burning at the high temperatures for prolonged periods with any of those detail burners is going to shorten the life of them but frankly I don't know many people who have the need to do that.

              Anyway, Bob, can you perhaps invite Cam into this discussion!!!! Red Face

              Nedra

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: usefull burner features from users

                I am truly appricative of every scrap of information i can get that will help me make an informed decision on the purchace of a $9-woodburner or a $130-pyrographic station kit.

                i know there is no tempature probe on the units,
                the numbers on the dial is all you have to go by as how hot the tip is. except how the tip preforms,...

                and buying a tool that preforms too slow is good to learn with but with it being slow progress might slow the operator to where they would rather do anything else than to turn it on again...
                its tricky to decide which is going to be a better burner, with no experiance with the equiptment,

                maybe i need to look for a used unit so i can share the disappointment of buying the wrong burner with someone else thats wanting to recoop some of their loss..
                . maybe it wouldnt hurt as much, if i got it lower price.

                to begain with, then i could relate what im hearing with what i am experiancing,

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: usefull burner features from users

                  Hi Thomp)

                  what burner we own and the features we like as well as the short commings of particular units, favorite nibs and tips as
                  there is surely hundreds of them to choose from...

                  1. whats the best brand for begainers or someone that wants to really get into pyrography.


                  I'm new at wood burning and can't give advice on other burners but I have a Razertip and it's great. The temperature dial on my burner is from 1 to 10,
                  shading works well at about 6 and for a deep burn like hair I use 7.5 or less, I've never tried the 10 setting but I'm sure I could start a fire with it.


                  2.Whats the general concensus on handpieces

                  I bought a $10 burner and never use it, the handpiece is too fat and the tip is so far from my finger tips that it's awkward to work with (for me anyway).

                  3. is a fixed tip better than replacable tips? its surely more expencive according to razortip site.


                  From what I've heard most people only use one or two pens to do everything, now paint brushes are a different story, I have a dozen and use them all..lol

                  4. whats the best tip for fine detail?


                  I use the HD14M (round-heel knife) for detail like hair, ears, buttons and button holes because the tip is shaped like a knife blade, you can also get the point up under a hat without burning the hat.

                  Bill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: usefull burner features from users

                    My experience is limited to Dial-A-Temp and the el-cheapo kid's burners. However, The Dial-A-Temp does have a variable dial and does burn good. Only problem it used copper and brass tips lsimular to the el cheapos. No nice knife tips or shaders. Have used it on some carvings.
                    Kenny_S
                    thanks for the information...

                    walmarts here sells a woodburner i think its a weller not sure. with 5 replaceable tips, and sells the little copper tips seprately in a assortment 5 pecies, if the copper end will unscrew from your burner maybe you could use one of thes assortments.. it has the exacto knife tip with hot blade for working plastic or wax.. but it was one thing i was thinking about for doing super fine lines like duck feather grain... but how it would hold up over time?
                    ---
                    as i understand the dial a temp woodburner is a configurement old woodburner, style I only found one example posted pic.
                    but it had a seprate box that plugged in the wall for power adjustment. correct?
                    pic posted as well.


                    I have a small weller woodburner/soldering iron. in the same configuration,
                    and a ingersol ram Soldering pistol.
                    the ingersol ram is an old one with lots of power. it can solder copper water pipe but the copper whip is so big its useless besides the thing weighs 5 pounds...

                    but as you mentioned the little weller woodburner soldering iron, i have heats up too hot to handle comfortably after 5 minuets, i have made new nibs for it through the years as soldering with acid core solder dose eat them up. but i just used a solid copper 3/16 wire, and threaded it with a die... then files it to shape.

                    still you cant make the nib - heating tip too long or youll never get it hot with these little pencils...

                    plus the heating element is big on mine and i usualy get my fingers burnt by the element carelessly paying attention to the tip of the tool. and not watching the element barrel as well..

                    i think mine might be used great for flat shading on a flat plank. woth a blunt tip. but in detail carvings i think it would come up with lots of extra marks not desired..

                    thanks again for the info..

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: usefull burner features from users

                      thanks nedra for the reply.

                      i finely got the point across..
                      and were on the same thought path.

                      that if a 40 watt and 130 watt unit can use the same tips. will the tips have a shorter lifespan on the bigger unit or do you have to compensate? by buying heavier gague nibs.. ???

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: usefull burner features from users

                        Phaeton,

                        thanks for the information on your station, what wattage is your system?

                        and did you choose the nibs or was they just included in the package?

                        and thanks for providing your experiance with using the razortip pyrographic station on details while carving in the round.

                        most of has seen lynn o droughty's work a phenominal carver and has shown some mighty fine carvings, i had asked him how he went about getting such fine detail on his carvings he mentioned he use a pyropen for his detail..

                        so i started looking for pyropens and it turned out to be a butain operated gas pencil with interchangable tips for burning or soldering. weller makes them for around $80 bucks..

                        and my experiance with refillable butain lighters, candles, lanterns, camp cook stoves and flame pens is desastorious, the tanks dont fill up half the way when i fill a lighter, and it seams the gas is dirty or i just use them too hard becuse they get stopped up and quit working, theres no user parts to replace in them other gagets. so i didnt want to invest in that.. once bitten...

                        but the pyrography station offers something i think ill really like as its so convertable. if i can get over some issues that will be money in the bank down the line.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: usefull burner features from users

                          A simple Razortip two pen station works for me Thomp. Don't burn a lot, but do some. I find the interchangable pens the answer, use three of them the most, have a few others but the curved shader, small skew and fine writing tips do it all for me. Good control on the dial, plenty of heat and convienient.

                          Have an old soldering iron with a multitude of tips shapes and two different wattage barrels, but it's too long for burning, but great for soldering.
                          Bob
                          Before they slip me over the standing part of the fore sheet, let them pipe: "Up Spirits" one more time.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: usefull burner features from users

                            Thomp;

                            Wattage max= 45
                            10 Amp
                            The "6" setting is about 825 *F and 7.5 is about 925 *F (10 is 1150*F)

                            The HD5MP Medium Bent Spear Shader pen came with my burner, the flat side can be used for shading
                            and the sharp edge can be used to make deep lines.
                            http://nedraspyrography.com/RT-HD5MP.jpg
                            http://nedraspyrography.com/RT-HD5MP_Side.jpg
                            I bought the HD14M Medium Round Heel Knife extra, both can be used for Ducks and general detail.
                            http://nedraspyrography.com/RT-14M.jpg
                            Bill

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: usefull burner features from users

                              Originally posted by Phaeton
                              Thomp;

                              Wattage max= 45
                              10 Amp
                              The "6" setting is about 825 *F and 7.5 is about 925 *F (10 is 1150*F)

                              The HD5MP Medium Bent Spear Shader pen came with my burner, the flat side can be used for shading
                              and the sharp edge can be used to make deep lines.
                              http://nedraspyrography.com/RT-HD5MP.jpg
                              http://nedraspyrography.com/RT-HD5MP_Side.jpg
                              I bought the HD14M Medium Round Heel Knife extra, both can be used for Ducks and general detail.
                              http://nedraspyrography.com/RT-14M.jpg
                              Bill
                              Thomp, the burners I sell are packed with the HD5MP but if you buy any where else they come with a #1L skew. I have my burners packed this way because I find this to be one of the most versatile pens.

                              Anyway, please do feel free to check out the tutorial on the pens as well.

                              I do want to add a bit of info on those single temperature burners. The 25 watt burners only come with 1 heat shield so yes, the pens can get very hot. I use both a 25 watt Walnut Hollow (old version that was made in the US by Wall Lenk) and I use a 30 watt made by Wall Lenk. The 30 watt has a double heat shield and I can use it for hours without getting hot.

                              As for the handle being uncomfortable and difficult to use for detail, it really is a matter of getting used to it and gaining control with practice. I have been doing a lot of experimenting lately with it and am now able to gain more control with it. IT's an option and I now use in conjuction with my Razertip and a torch (another experiment). I'm actually using it to draw my pattern on with it and do some detail work with as I gain a bit more control over it. There is a place for it, especially if you are working with harder woods.

                              Nedra

                              Comment

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