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My first chip carving knife(s)? Please help

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  • #16
    Originally posted by pallin View Post
    I'm sorry if my reply had a strident tone. You clearly have given a lot of thought to your approach to a new hobby. Success in carving involves the coming together of many skills, tools, wood knowledge, inspiration, etc. I have seen beginners produce amazing results with none of the "right" stuff or struggle with the best "stuff" available. Perhaps it is all in one's expectations.
    I found your tone quite friendly; I was just clarifying my question. I have also seen many people put too much focus on having the right tool or the best gear and blame their lack of advancement upon the lack thereof.

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    • #17
      By the way, Mr. Stafford, your photo shows you would make a excellent subject for a wood carving! LOL

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      • #18
        Originally posted by pallin View Post
        By the way, Mr. Stafford, your photo shows you would make a excellent subject for a wood carving! LOL
        What are you taking about? That IS a photo of my first carving.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Steve Reed View Post
          Re: My first chip carving knife(s)? Please help

          I'll chime in here and echo the other folks. Stay away from the "sets" like 2 cherries etc. As stated, you get what you pay for. Barton knives are excellent, but so are OCC and others. Yes, most will cost more than $20. Take a look at mychipcarving.com, Marty has some nice knives as well. Not a commercial, just info.
          Is 2 Cherries a poor make? Recently someone recommended 2 Cherries as good tool sets.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by kiri View Post

            Is 2 Cherries a poor make? Recently someone recommended 2 Cherries as good tool sets.
            Tool recommendations are always opinions. Even the best tools can be a disaster in the hands of an inept carver. Even the best tools get dull.

            It may be fair to say that tool companies that have been in business for many years must be producing tools satisfactory to most users. However, many fine companies have gone out of business because some other company began selling a cheaper product that looked like the "good stuff."

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            • #21
              Originally posted by pallin View Post

              Tool recommendations are always opinions. Even the best tools can be a disaster in the hands of an inept carver. Even the best tools get dull.

              It may be fair to say that tool companies that have been in business for many years must be producing tools satisfactory to most users. However, many fine companies have gone out of business because some other company began selling a cheaper product that looked like the "good stuff."
              Indeed. I would have thought so too. 2x Cherries has been producing tools for over a hundred years, and they are still going strong, I thought. If they were making poor quality tools, they would not have gone on that long.

              It is just I could not see any Youtube videos of carvers using 2 cherries tools. Mostly they are using either Pfeil or Flexcut - ones I have seen.

              I am not sure if very cheap Chinese tools are good, because I have seen some Chinese carvers making life like realistic face, buddah and relief carvings with their rusty metal stick sharpened at the end as handle-less gouges and broken broom sticks and tree branches as mallet.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgIf6n7oksI
              Last edited by kiri; 05-16-2017, 04:08 PM.

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              • #22
                Just shows that if you have the skill, the tools are secondary.

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                • #23
                  There are times when you have to gamble, throw some money at the wall and see if any of it sticks.

                  I thought that Two Cherries was a marketing face for some other big European bladesmith. Stubai, maybe?

                  1. Narex 1/2" skew pairs from Lee Valley. $24.50/pair. So good I bought a second pair a week later.
                  2. $16.00 Samona spokeshaves from the local hardware store. So poorly made with such good steel blades that I bought a second one a week later.
                  They absolutely "sing" in the wood.
                  3. Stanley (#51??) spoke shave that had to be adjusted with a hammer. $50.00. Blade so soft it could not be sharpened. Because I tried, could not return it.
                  4. Chinese kitchen cleavers. I have 5 of them. The best? Little, stained 6" jobbies meant to be a right-handed slicing cleaver, 2 different bevel angled sides.
                  Whopping $6.95 each and 30 minutes to even up the bevels to 15 degrees. Got lucky = bought one and went back for 2 more.
                  Don't use my big Premier cleavers in a month of Sundays.

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                  • #24
                    There are some negative reviews for 2 Cherries tools on Amazon. I think they do mass produce for mass market, so their quality seem vary.

                    If one is good at sharpening, and don't mind maintenance on the tools, then it wouldn't be a bad idea buying cheap tools, and use them sharpening before / after use.

                    All tools get dull through use, and need sharpening or honing time to time, so it is just a matter of how often.

                    I am sure dull Pheil gouges sets costing 700 - 800 dollars for 25 tools in the wooden box wouldn't be much better than 10 dollar ebay set, if not properly sharpened and honed.
                    Last edited by kiri; 05-20-2017, 03:00 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Two Cherries are made in Germany and they are fine knives. I personally prefer Barton, Pfeil, or knives sold by Dennis Moor and/or Marty Leenhouts. Some are more expensive than others, but knives from these folks will work well for you. Best of luck.
                      Steve Reed - Carvin' in the flatlands!

                      My fb page: https://www.facebook.com/stephen.ree...8.100000156660 683&type=3

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                      • #26
                        I agree that it isn't the knife that is so important BUT a knife that is well made and fits your hand will make the job a lot easier and learning a little faster. I started with a set of Wayne BARTON knives and still like them. I also have about a half dozen other chip carving knives including flex cuts. The Pfeil knives have a very good reputation and will do the job well.

                        I've found that even more important than the knife is how well it is sharpened. I had a friend that got me started chip carving that used either a one sided razor or a box cutter and did beautiful work. I work with a strop beside me at all times so that when I get a knife SHARP it will stay sharp. One of the things that I do now is make a lot of my own carving knives so they fit and do exactly what I want. I buy Old hickory kitchen knives. They are great carbon steel 1095 hi-carbon and if you do them right they are about as good as even the high dollar knives. I made on today. I bought a paring knife of a little under 6 dollars. cut the blade with a dremel then shaped and sharpened it for very close detail work. It is razor sharp and I will use the rest of the blade to make a couple more knives later.

                        I sharpen with emery cloth that I glue to paint sticks then do the same with leather one side is the rough side and the other side is the smooth side. I have a lot of good diamond sharpeners and even a set of spderco ceramic stones but really the emery cloth from 100 to 2000 grit works really well for a lot less money. Instead of buying just jewelers rouge I also use super fine aluminum oxide powder that I also use for polishing rocks. I put is on a leather strop and it will polish and smooth the edge real nicely.

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                        • #27
                          I screwed up and broke off the tip of the knife by prying, even though I know that it is a no-no. Mr. Barton reground the knife for me for nothing more than postage.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by kiri View Post
                            There are some negative reviews for 2 Cherries tools on Amazon. I think they do mass produce for mass market, so their quality seem vary.

                            If one is good at sharpening, and don't mind maintenance on the tools, then it wouldn't be a bad idea buying cheap tools, and use them sharpening before / after use.

                            All tools get dull through use, and need sharpening or honing time to time, so it is just a matter of how often.

                            I am sure dull Pheil gouges sets costing 700 - 800 dollars for 25 tools in the wooden box wouldn't be much better than 10 dollar ebay set, if not properly sharpened and honed.

                            I really have to comment on this.

                            The 10.00 ebay set?? You are kidding right?

                            Unless someone is actually giving something away, there is no 10.00 tool, let alone a set, that will come anywhere close to the quality of a Pfeil gouge.

                            I agree that the 25 tools in the wooden box is not the most economical way to go, but it isn't the only way to go either.

                            That wooden box costs a LOT. You can hire someone to make one for less.

                            Sets of tools are almost always a bad idea. There are always tools in a set that you almost never use. Far better is to buy a small selection of tools to start and then add to them as necessary, and built your own "set" that actually works for you.

                            The "10.00 sets" are useless junk. To get a person who knows what they are doing to properly sharpen the V tool in that set will cost more than buying a Pfeil V tool (from the right source), and you still will have a tool that won't keep the edge.

                            The Pfeil tools come razor sharp and ready to use. Not the chip carving knives though - Pfeil chip carving knives need to be sharpened by the user. And Yes, Pfeil does not make a proper stab knife. No idea why.

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                            • #29
                              I am one of those guys that bought the "Brienz Collection" - 21 Pfeil gouges in a Beechwood box with a brass plate with my name engraved. But I didn't buy it as a beginner! I bought my first Pfeil (#3-12mm) gouge in the town of Brienz (Switzerland) in 2001 while on ski trip. At that point I had been carving for 60 years! I purchased maybe 20 others before I "invested" in the Brienz Collection.

                              I do not recommend this approach for any carving hobbyist. Most of these fine gouges are hardly used, and the prospect is unlikely in the remainder of my carving days. Avoid the tool acquisition fetish - buy only what you will use.

                              133 (2).jpg
                              Last edited by pallin; 09-05-2017, 02:17 PM. Reason: Added photo & correction

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                              • #30
                                Thanks, Pallin. I actually saw that set at Maagard Log Home Building Tools, many years ago. The carrying case is a work of art, all by itself.
                                I agree. Buy the gouges as you need them. That "need" will show up in the middle of a carving.

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