Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Pfeil Sweep Gouges Question:

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    I have built up a dozen or more crooked knives from worn down farrier's hoof trimming crooked knives. There's still a lifetime of wood carving steel in every one of them. I have no idea how many different brands there are, I've got Hall (Canada), Mora (Sweden), Ukal (France) and Diamond (Taiwan). A new Hall knife cost me $50.00. I give the farrier $5.00 each for his, he's happy.

    I think one advantage of buying just blades or bashing off the factory handles is that you get to make up a knife with a handle that fits your hands. Any touch of arthritis in your hands and you want all the comfort you can find.

    The Kestrel adzes are very useful at the rough out stage for bigger carvings. I have a Stubai 7/75, good for little more than chopping the rot out of a log core. Second hand and badly contoured by owner #1, the price was right for a mongrel.
    Brian T

    Comment


    • #32
      Some of you are wondering "why would this matter?" The photo below shows the rounded corner of a recent relief carving. The outside of the curve was cut with a Pfeil #7-10mm, held perpendicular to the corner. The curve exactly connects the flat surfaces of the top & side. This means the arc of the cut is exactly 90 degrees. If it was greater than 90, the edges of the gouge would have cut into the flat surfaces.
      The inside of the curve was cut with a #8-3mm. Note that it exceeds the curve necessary to join the sides.

      Cat5.jpg

      Comment


      • #33
        That inside curve is interesting! I did some calculations and assuming the wall to be 5mm then the best fit Pfeil would be a #9-5. Because the radius of the #7-10 is 7.5mm minus the wall thickness of 5mm leaves a desired radius of 2.5mm. Pfeil only has one gouge with a radius of 2.5mm and that would be a #9-5. I'm working on a table to eliminate the math but need to test it in the real world with real gouges that I do not have access to. I would appreciate any help verifying that the Pfeil #5-5 and #7-10 and #9-15 all have the same curvature. That is to say that all fit into the same cut.

        Comment


        • #34
          Interesting comments. Actually the width of the #8 was not critical because the edges of the gouge extended into vacant space. I just cut the curve too deep.
          Several years ago we had a long discussion about the interchangeability of gouge segments. Some of the theoretical #9's that would substitute for #3's are non-existent. There were some carvers who insisted that all #5 curves (for example) had the same radius.
          Last edited by pallin; 09-08-2021, 03:35 PM.

          Comment


          • #35
            fyi Sheffield List
            .pdf format sheffieldlist.pdf

            Comment


            • #36
              Thanks for that listing. It points out also how Pfeil (and possibly others) elected to designate skews as 1S and not as #2. Thus, the sweep scalings are off by one step. I found that it didn't matter very much. Just a judgement to pick an edge with a little or a lot of sweep.
              Brian T

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Steve Reed View Post
                All I can add is WOW! I didn't know I would have to do math! I think some of you folks are thinking too hard.
                Just my $.02 others may differ.
                I do not have to be an engineer to do art,.....math is not apart of the tools I use. I look at it before I buy it, use it and if the sucker gives me the cuts that I need and creates the bigger picture I want....., that is all the information I need. I know some people know their tools on here and appreciate the wisdom. but Steve, LOL I agree with you.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Dileon View Post

                  I do not have to be an engineer to do art,.....math is not apart of the tools I use. I look at it before I buy it, use it and if the sucker gives me the cuts that I need and creates the bigger picture I want....., that is all the information I need. I know some people know their tools on here and appreciate the wisdom. but Steve, LOL I agree with you.
                  I also agree. I just pick up a gouge and see if it fits the cut I want; if not, I select another.
                  Arthur

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Yes, even though I was an active participant in this discussion I choose my gouges to fit the current task. I still find no need for long bent or back bent gouges.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by johnvansyckel View Post
                      That inside curve is interesting! I did some calculations and assuming the wall to be 5mm then the best fit Pfeil would be a #9-5. Because the radius of the #7-10 is 7.5mm minus the wall thickness of 5mm leaves a desired radius of 2.5mm. Pfeil only has one gouge with a radius of 2.5mm and that would be a #9-5. I'm working on a table to eliminate the math but need to test it in the real world with real gouges that I do not have access to. I would appreciate any help verifying that the Pfeil #5-5 and #7-10 and #9-15 all have the same curvature. That is to say that all fit into the same cut.
                      I went and checked my gouges. I have one of each of these. They fit exactly. I'd've expected a little manufacturing tolerance difference, but the smaller gouges were right at home in the cut made by the #9-15.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Dark Lighting - THANK YOU!
                        The datasheet below should provide some answers and eliminate the math.
                        data sheet gouges #3 - #9.pdf

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by johnvansyckel View Post
                          Dark Lighting - THANK YOU!
                          The datasheet below should provide some answers and eliminate the math.
                          [ATTACH]n1205838[/ATTACH]
                          No problem! I post as Dark_Lightning at Lumberjocks.com. We had a discussion over there about gouge curvatures. I measured a bunch of them and ginned up a spreadsheet. I'll go look at it again to see if it is worth posting here.

                          Comment


                          • #43


                            I must be dumb as mud. I have tried to understand the point of this conversation but have been unable to understand why this would be important to a wood carver. Now if this was a blade smith forum and we were interested in making carving tools that I could follow that logic.

                            Developing the ability to look at a desired shape a choosing a tool to make that shape is part and parcel of becoming a wood carver. It isn’t a science it’s an art, seek to become the artist not the human CNC mill.


                            Ed
                            https://www.ebay.com/sch/bmart50/m.h...1&_ipg=&_from=
                            Local club
                            https://www.facebook.com/CentralNebraskaWoodCarvers

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I have to agree with Ed, I'm having trouble seeing the point of this conversation.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                It's like sharpening techniques. This matters to some people and not to others.

                                Probably, the most readily recognizable and iconic carving style is the art and carvings from the First Nations of the Pacific Northwest. Various woods, Haida argillite, copper, silver and gold. In wood, the various shapes of the crooked knives that are in use allow you to make different kinds of cuts. I have maybe 6-8 on the bench at any time. Big and little. I pick the one to best make the shape I expect to see. Like I used to do with gouges.

                                I don't think there's any practical mathematical description of the crooked knife shapes.

                                Brian T

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X