Online Instructions

[Mark N. Akers]

With the days were living in now, i am just curious on what the general consences is on online instructions. Im giving my opinion as not only a instructor, but also a student that has done several classes this past year.
as an Instructor: I found that there isn't any travel expenses, staying in strange hotels and eating in unfamiliar restrauants.
also from just watching students in several Zoom classes I can say there attention seems to be allot better on
the projects.Also instead of having a class max of 12,I have seen several classes I have taken to contain
80-95 students.So as a Instructor I personally like them.
as a student: I have watched students during a live class only get 2-3 one on one with the Instructor in a 8 hour day
The attention span is allot better as the student feels involved the whole class and not there 10 minute turn
2-3 times a day.I feel myself I am allot more attenitive due to being in the comforts of my home or shop, which
also goes for the Instructor.Again the students not out any expenses other then the class fees, which are about
what they would be if traveling to one of the many schools.
This isn't by recommendation of any vendors or instructors, just for my knowledge for future classes.
Please give your honest opinion, and really looking for both pros and cons, thanks.

[Nebraska]

Mark,

As I read your comments I had more questions come to mind. I will try to put my thoughts into a coherent response but no guarantees.

My first thought is the wide variety of on line classes. I’m think they range from YouTube videos to small group zoom classes. But then you’re talking about 80-90 students how would you interact with 80-90 students in a zoom world or a real one? I’ve been to a few zoom meetings and can’t imagine that number being manageable. Then I’m thinking if you can get 80-90 people to pay you even close to what they paid for an in person small group class? Well I can see why as an instructor you would like $$$$$$ that format.

We had a couple members in our club who loved going to classes (but no longer drove) so few times I signed up for classes. They were “next you” classes at the end of the day I had completed a carving but never felt
I had learned anything.

My experience and what I think separates good from bad instruction regardless of format is when the student is done. Have they learned something they can apply new subject.
Example one: I purchased an Ian Norbury video on carving a bust. The process is conveyed in away that can be repeated to create bust of different people.
Example two: In preparing for the class I’m currently teaching I watched a Doug Linker Owl video. I’m happy to report that I was able to complete the project. But since the instructions were you cut here then you cut there then here then here. When it was done it did feel like I learned anything I could apply to carving a different bird.
So I think the format is not issue but the intent of the instruction are we teaching people to be carvers or how to complete a single project?

Attention span of students. I know that one of my biases toward classes is enjoying doing things that take about two hour. Seldom sit at my own bench for longer than two hours. Prefer 9 holes of golf to 18, it takes about two hours. Guess saying again don’t see attention span as a format issue.

If an instructor is not balancing their time between students that seems a instructor issue not a format issue.

The class I’m currently teaching was originally going to be a complete a project class. But since it is a beginner class it change to multiple projects to expose student to different tools and techniques. Also after the fist night with a traditional classroom setting, I arrived early and rearranged the room so carvers where sitting facing each other. They actually visited while carving. After giving a bit of instruction I let the students carve for a bit then go around to each student check the progress and offer suggestions some time a little on project demonstration. Not sure how you do that in zoom?

MTCW

[Eddy-Smiles]

While it's true that Zoom can reach more people I believe that it loses the intimate interaction that in person carving provides. Perhaps it's the way of the future and in person seminars will become less frequent, going the way of the old front porch where neighbors met each other face to face.

[Scott78]

My opinion only, but I am against turning any analog pursuit into a digital activity. I do not have internet beyond my phone, and do not use a computer at home. I would much rather read a book or magazine to learn how to do something than follow a class teacher anyway. Or just look at a picture of something and figure out how to carve it through applying what I already know how to do and through trial and error. I realize that way is not for everyone, but for me alone. Sitting on the front porch and carving is much more appealing that looking at a screen. Even if I end up making kindling, the experience is better for me, imo. Ymmv.

[Claude]

I have taken a couple of online courses from Dave Stetson. Dave does interact with the students through texting/comments by the students. He also explains each thing he's doing and why. I haven't taken a course by Mark, but I suspect he does the same. I have had Mark as an Instructor at the RWR in Tennessee and enjoyed it thoroughly. The Major advantage for me is that the instruction is in 1.5 - 2 hour sessions. I watch the instruction without attempting to carve, then when the class is over, I can replay it and pause it after a few seconds to see if I can carve what I just saw. Stetson's classes usually end each session with him telling the students to send him progress photos of their carvings for critique. I found that helpful.

Claude

[4ND3R5]

I've never had an in person class, I've watched plenty of videos on YouTube and the Woodcarving Acedemy and love it. I'm taking my first zoom class with Dave Stetson....this sunday will wrap it up for a total of 12hrs of class time. $130 bucks for the three weekends\2hrs each day. I am enjoying it. Unless the class is somewhere close I don't know how anyone could afford travel expenses to an in person class.
If it wasn't for coming across a YouTube carving video I don't think I would ever have become a carver.
Between work and family I don't have time to travel to an in person class, much less wanting to spend a couple grand in travel expenses.

[JBright11]

Mostly the same page as Anders, if not for YouTube and Woodcarving Academy, I would not be doing what I'm doing today.
I do belong to my local carving group and have gotten some great advice on sharpening / stropping. Never taken a Zoom class, or any in person instruction.

Much like Claude, I typically watch an entire carving video all the way thru.....if there are lots of measurements and such I typically try to make the marks on the wood and keep it in my hand while watching. Once I get thru the first time, I shut it off, and then use the marked piece and try to get as far as I can without resuming the video. When I get stuck and am uncertain of where to go next, I'll spin up the video and FF to that spot, get a hint, then shut it off and go again. Wash / rinse / repeat.

Once I get all the way thru a carving in that manner, I will typically wait a day or two, then try to recreate the same carving only using the one I just did as a go by.....but, maybe a different hat, or maybe holding something different, or .......

I'm getting farther and farther along without having to turn on the video, and I'm having much more success "tweaking" the following carvings. Exactly what I'm looking for.

[Merle Rice]

I have never went to a Carving Class . I'm a Slow Carver and Feel I wouldn't be able to keep up with the Instructor and get nothing from the Class . I used Videos , that way I could Carve at my Own Discretion . I'm getting ready to Play a Few now, never gets Old. Merle

[mpounders]

I have did in-person, recorded lessons, and live Zoom instruction. They all have advantages and disadvantages. I like the in person lessons because you get to visit and learn from other carvers until it is your turn and you get feedback and recommendations about your own carving. You often have a finished carving to look at during live sessions as you carve yours. Video and pictures are great but being able to hold and turn a carving, both as an instructor and a student, let's you see things that cameras may not show as well. You have the opportunity to see exactly how cuts are made and also try other tools. The negative is the travel/lodging and all that.

Recorded or live Zoom classes are great because of less expense, ability to rewind\replay, and all the things that Mark mentioned. Also, the classes never fill up and you get to carve with a wide variety of instructors. But it doesn't provide the same interaction and feed back you get in a live in-person class. Some of the people teaching classes now, were students in many classes that I attended in person, so it is kinda like having multiple instructors in every class. Over heard conversations and unrelated conversations provide some education that you just can't get online. I will continue to do both.

[Steve Reed]

I used to teach at a technical college and found student interaction much better in person than via zoom. I've also taken several in-person classes with some great carvers, including Dave. The personal interaction between student and instructor are invaluable, as well as interaction with the other students. It just makes for a better experience all around, to my mind.
I've also taught chip carving locally and believe that the tell, show, do process is better in person.
Just my $.02, others may differ.
Steve

[Mark N. Akers]

Thanks everyone for al you input, it helps to go to the source when trying to make some decisions on future classes down the road.I unfortuntly have been forced to doing online classes due to not being able to travel with a medical problem, but as long as i can continue stroking a knife Im good with doing them.I do like the onteraction with students wether i am teaching or a satudent to be a big plus, thanks again.

[NoDNA]

My opinion only, but I am against turning any analog pursuit into a digital activity. I do not have internet beyond my phone, and do not use a computer at home. I would much rather read a book or magazine to learn how to do something than follow a class teacher anyway. Or just look at a picture of something and figure out how to carve it through applying what I already know how to do and through trial and error. I realize that way is not for everyone, but for me alone. Sitting on the front porch and carving is much more appealing that looking at a screen. Even if I end up making kindling, the experience is better for me, imo. Ymmv.

I for one hasten to agree with you. Having never taken a class, and no experience when I started. It was a bit difficult to understand what I was doing,, HAHaa still after so many years . But this page is like a small class and many in it to say a bit and it does good.
Chuck

[Randy]

Like others I taught my self from books and doing. But my way was slow and clumsy. I got my first dvd on carving a walking stick. He did in a hour what I spent a day doing. It was his process. Where and how he made his cuts. In a short time I was doing it in a hour too. I became a big fan of dvd’s. I like being able to see it done. Some years ago I got a small portable dvd player that I can set on the work bench or on a log out in the woods and I can stop and play back sections until I get it. They generally cost less than a class on line and I can go back to it when ever I feel the need. That just me what ever work best for a carver is good.

[Rodster]

While it's true that Zoom can reach more people I believe that it loses the intimate interaction that in person carving provides. Perhaps it's the way of the future and in person seminars will become less frequent, going the way of the old front porch where neighbors met each other face to face.

I find myself agreeing with Eddy on most topics these days. As I was reading the comments on this thread, I wondered about chatting with your fellow students, sharing a coffee during break, and the impersonal nature of the the Zoom experience. It may suit a small gathering of carvers, but it's no substitute for meeting with your fellows and making new friends.

[pallin]

There were no videos or Zoom sessions when I learned to carve 80 years ago. In some respects, it is like learning to ride a bicycle - you have to adjust to "feedback" from the bike, or from your knife or gouge. You may not learn that from watching someone else do it. Often videos are edited for time compression and students think it's quick and easy.