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Is this normal for Pfeil?

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  • Is this normal for Pfeil?

    Hey all; I recently received this Pfeil 5F/14 in the post from WoodCraft, and while doing that new tool first inspection, noticed the bevel was pretty bad looking. I was gonna chock it up to just a lackluster sharpening, but upon further inspection, it turns out that the bevel is consistent (as far as angle) and is just a symptom of another problem; the underside of the tool shaft was unevenly ground across its width. I tried getting pics of the difference in thickness, but it wasn't real obvious in the pics. Essentially, one wing of the fishtail (the side with the longer bevel) is around a half millimeter thicker than the other wing.

    As I don't have too many Pfeil gouges, I was just wondering if this is normal for Pfeil tools? Also, my first inclination is to send it back; would this be an over-reaction? Everything else about the tool seems fine.

  • #2
    Hi,

    I have 12 and none looked like yours - also I got the fish tail(s) instead of the normal.
    They came sharpened and didn't need any work to use - I ordered from Chipping Away and got a deal even though it was from Canada to US (me). I would send it back get a another that looks like a reworked bevel.

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    • #3
      It's hooped. Pfeil should be completely better than that. I'd return it. My 5F/14 looks good.
      I would not even attempt to fix that.
      Brian T

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      • #4
        Really appreciate the advice guys; good to know that this is not right and I'll certainly be sending this one back from whence it came. Thanks!

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        • #5
          That is not normal, I am surprised that they would let that one go out the door, not to their usual quality. I have a few dozen of their tools and non look like that.

          Bob
          Before they slip me over the standing part of the fore sheet, let them pipe: "Up Spirits" one more time.

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          • #6
            Pfeil lets tools get out the door that really are substandard. Buyer beware.
            I repaired 5-6 Pfeil gouges for a vendor some years ago. Was a factory box of maybe 20? of them.
            The corners of some 5/35 were actually bashed over bent. Hard to believe how it might have been possible to do that.
            Mind you, I've never seen a beat-up Pfeil gouge before or since until this one.
            Brian T

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Robson Valley View Post
              Pfeil lets tools get out the door that really are substandard. Buyer beware.
              I repaired 5-6 Pfeil gouges for a vendor some years ago. Was a factory box of maybe 20? of them.
              The corners of some 5/35 were actually bashed over bent. Hard to believe how it might have been possible to do that.
              Mind you, I've never seen a beat-up Pfeil gouge before or since until this one.
              I’m sorry to agree with you because I like pfeil tools so much but I got a 3f16 this time from WC last year and it was in the same shape as shiz. I brought it back to the crabby woman that was worked there for ever. I said look at this, pfeil stuff has gone done hill. She said that every industry has let quality control go down hill and walked away. That’s the last new pfeil I ever buy.

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              • #8
                It's still a shame though, fishtail gouges are really comfortable to use.

                The first 2 or 3 times that you have to joint a $50 gouge and reshape the bevel, your heart will be in your throat.
                Ever after that, it is just a soul-destroying chore to fix it. There is such satisfaction in that you can step up to fix any steel edge.
                I believe that's what makes rebuilding farrier's knife blades into wood carving tools so easy.
                Brian T

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                • #9
                  It really is a shame, but I suppose you'll always have some get by QC....I do wonder if fishtails are more likely to be flubbed than standard gouges? No real way to know, I suppose.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Robson Valley View Post
                    It's still a shame though, fishtail gouges are really comfortable to use.

                    The first 2 or 3 times that you have to joint a $50 gouge and reshape the bevel, your heart will be in your throat.
                    Ever after that, it is just a soul-destroying chore to fix it. There is such satisfaction in that you can step up to fix any steel edge.
                    I believe that's what makes rebuilding farrier's knife blades into wood carving tools so easy.
                    I just hit a piece of hard sand in a piece of popler with a pfeil 3/12 fishtail. I can’t believe the size of the scrape(gouge) from the edge of the chisel. It’s about a year old. I do believe the new pfeil are a harder steal than my 30 year old ones. I was using a mallet, something I don’t do much especially with a fishtail. I’ve got about 10-15 ratty gouges that I don’t mind smashing away on but I just had a small section in the sap wood and I heard it and looked down and sure enough. I have a tormek(didn’t use it for this one) and take down the bevel on even my new pfeils. Auriou is one of the few brands that I haven’t had to send a lot of time reginding a new bevel. I got about 30-40 120 year old Addis that all needed to be fully restored. I was definitely nervous on the first few but it becomes second nature. I’d like to try the works after the tormek. I generally go over my older friends place, he’s got some nice big buffers.

                    Let me know when you’ve got an extra crooked blade you can sell me or I can trade for. I’d like to try one of yours

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ARGHHHHHH! Is that not the absolute pits to hit a sand grain in dirty wood? You have my sympathies, sir.
                      Joint the sucker and start from square one again. Hard on the head.
                      I just bought a 6-speed electric grinder to save me some time with the coarse grinds.
                      Might be OK for final honing, we shall see.

                      You have earned a Hall crooked knife. I have 5 or 6 on the bench to finish then I put you on the list.
                      I give the farrier $5 each so is basically nothing but all the hand work to tune them up.
                      Hope you are right handed, that's all I can get here.
                      Brian T

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                      • #12
                        I’m always nervous with a new piece of wood, mostly because I carve in what most would consider kindling. I hit it with a metal and then a plastic wire brush after I hand planed it a 60mm flat chisel to get out some of the bland saw marks from the mill. I wasn’t really thinking about dirt, sand metal in ths piece of wood, then I heard that sound! I’m pretty ruff on most of my tools. I’ve been a contractor for 25 years and making the customer happy and making a buck are the most important things. Maintenance is sometimes second place. But for the most part I baby my carving tools. Once I get my bevels how I like them or repair a vintage chisel I don’t think I’ve put any of my blades to stone except for the ones I hit, drop, bang. I am ocd about stropping. A friend was hanging out with me one evening while I was doing some carving. He mentioned that I strop almost as much as I carve lol. The sand grain was about 20mm into the sap wood from the bark. The worst thing I hit was a piece of barbed wire in a some spalted birch. I saw staining but couldn’t tell it was from the metal. There’s so much barbed wire or bullets in the trees of New Hampshire or pretty much all of New England. I think I read there are three times the trees in New Hampshire now than there was 150 years ago, because all the land was farms. I’m alway amazed when I find a old granite foundation on the side of a mountain and stone walls every where, and then I see a 100+ year old tree that’s grown inside the foundation. Vermont has kept more of the farm land and it’s fields. But most of NH is grown over. Kind of sad because of all the hard work that went into it but it’s a relief that the earth can recover to some extent.

                        I definitely want to make up two larger handle knifes. I’m right handed for the most part. I put my back out last week doing something stupid so I’ve actually been doing more left handed maneuvers. Even been swinging an axe lefty. I don’t see left handed farrier knifes very often either. If I do I’ll send you some. Btw I found adze irons for $45. I’ll let you know how they are
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brian T View Post
                          ARGHHHHHH! Is that not the absolute pits to hit a sand grain in dirty wood? You have my sympathies, sir.
                          Joint the sucker and start from square one again. Hard on the head.
                          I just bought a 6-speed electric grinder to save me some time with the coarse grinds.
                          Might be OK for final honing, we shall see.

                          You have earned a Hall crooked knife. I have 5 or 6 on the bench to finish then I put you on the list.
                          I give the farrier $5 each so is basically nothing but all the hand work to tune them up.
                          Hope you are right handed, that's all I can get here.
                          I try so hard to only carve clean wood, I won’t even carve wood that has be sanded even will fine sandpaper or try not to. The paper always leaves something behind that will dull scratch the edge. I’ll definitely take you up on one of your famous crooked knifes. Say the word and I’ll send some post money or let me know I’d you need any other tools, I maybe have duplicates?

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                          • #14
                            One of the advantages of a "brick & mortar" Woodcraft store is being able to inspect and choose the Pfeil tool you are buying. I have developed a preference for fishtail gouges in my relief carving and have devoted a lot of time to their maintenance. That said, I have also had quality problems with Pfeil gouges. While doing a vertical cut in hardwood, aided by a mallet, I broke off most of the bevel of a #9-7mm straight gouge. So I ground it off and reformed the bevel. It took a lot of time on stone and strop. But I have had no problem with that gouge since. Was it a flaw in the heat treatment of the edge? Such a flaw could easily escape detection by the final inspector.

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                            • #15
                              Left-handed farrier's hoof knives are as scarce as hen's teeth.
                              With single-edges blades, having a pair for wood carving is just about essential.
                              Hall(Calgary/Canada) does make up some LH knives but you need to ask them who has the retail.
                              Mora (Sweden) and Diamond(Taiwan) LH blades are easier to find.

                              Here's the deal: for about the price of a pair, you can buy a single blade from Kestrel, Cariboo or North Bay Forge.
                              There's the RH/LH puzzle solved. Plus, you get to make the handle to fit yourself.

                              I've seen and worked on some really bad and beaten up Pfeil 5/35 for a tool vendor.
                              Gave me the pick of the litter for 1/3 price for doing the rehab work.
                              All in all, better than most but can't expect perfection from everybody.
                              For hand work, I do like the feel of the #3 and the #5 sweep fishtail gouges.
                              Brian T

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