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  • #16
    I have various manufactured knives and I always fall back to using the OCC. They are sharp and no complaints. Don't ignore the knife handles because they can affect carving.

    Sometimes things can be over thought, and usually they aren't as complicated as some people think. "A poor workman blames his tools," from my father's advice.

    Oh, I drive a Ford Diesel Pickup...what junk do you drive? <joke>
    Bill
    Living among knives and fire.

    http://www.texaswoodartist.com

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    • #17
      When it isn't totally frozen shut like now, I drive a 97 GMC Suburban LSE with all the bells and whistles. Everything works properly. 454 gas hog but for less than 500 miles per year, I don't care.

      I have watched an old film = video of Mungo Martin, sharpening a crooked knife with a rock and a bucket of water. I decided right then that I would do my best to learn those techniques. I have pieces of old lawn chair aluminum leg tubing and dowels for mandrels. I'll rest my best crooked knife over my knee and tune it up. Just watching me, I don't think you would figure out all that I'm doing.

      It's exactly the same as tuning up a Pfeil gouge on flat stones but the abrasive moves.
      Brian T

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      • #18
        Well, Brian, I agree on the year of 97.

        The old Vikings and medieval folks sharpened some rough steel with rocks and the tools cut well. Not sure they could explain the technique either.
        Bill
        Living among knives and fire.

        http://www.texaswoodartist.com

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        • #19
          There are some principles that apply to sharpening and honing. Could be a crooked knife, could be a pair of scissors. Same thing. Part of this was how I was taught free-hand sharpening in the first place. That destroyed every myth that I ever had about sharpening any edge. Then I realized that crooked knives were just the reverse, no big deal. Most of them are double edged so like it or not, you must become ambidextrous.

          Some day, I should find some indulgent soul and we make a video for free hand sharpening.
          All the unwritten tricks, one after another.

          I like the Burb. Easy for my old legs to get in and out of. Sitting up high enough to see traffic.
          Shift-on-the-fly 4X4 ( less than 70 kph). Even an electric compass in the RV mirror. Comfortable seats and arm rests, if you like. Parts and service are not exotic. Regular GMC stuff.
          People in the back seat can control the back heater. There's a tail-gate heater as well, best of all.
          I run synthetic jet turbine lube instead of mineral oil. Runny at -60C for easy cranking.
          Brian T

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          • #20
            To add a little fuel to the fire . When I'm trying to finish carving details I go will an OLFA 5023 9mm Multi-Purpose craft knife @ $7.98, with Olfa A1160B 30 Degree Carbon Steel Snap-Off Blade (10 pack) @ $6.19.

            The thin & flexible pointed blade is great. Even though these are snap-off blades over the last few years I've only snapped a couple. just keep stropping them as I go my other knives. Talk about an old cheap scape


            . . .JoeB

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            • #21
              My introduction to the entire business of First Nations and crooked knives was to watch a carver using a pair of left and right farrier's hoof trimming knives for wood carving. I did not know then that there are some very good west coast blade smiths for those who, like me, do not want to make out own blades.

              The local farrier uses Hall knives, retail at $50.00 each (or more now). I buy his worn down junk for $5.00 each. They have a lifetime of wood carving steel left in them. I even buy some to tune up for give-away gifts (cut the bevels from 25* down to 12*).

              Eventually, I have stumbled into buying top quality crooked knife blades and hafting them. Just the other day, I ran across another FN blade smith who has made no effort at all to promote himself. Does not need to, apparently.
              Brian T

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              • #22
                I had the same experience with an occt knife as Ed. Right from the first cut the edge rolled and no matter how I sharpened it it would roll over again. That's about the time I decided to just make my own knives. After a bunch of back and forth they agreed to send me a new one, but I had to send the old one back and pay for shipping. It now sits in a drawer out in my shop. I like occt gouges though.
                Anders.
                https://www.etsy.com/shop/BlackBladesNW

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                • #23
                  The best are around the Salish Sea. The political boundary between countries is irrelevant.

                  North Bay Forge, Kestrel, Clayoquot and Herb Rice.
                  Inland a little, Cariboo, Crescent Knife Works and Jamie Sharp.

                  "Preferred Edge" was Mike Comick.
                  He died, his wife sold the works, new owner has died also, I let them go.
                  Brian T

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                  • #24
                    Ok I stand corrected, I have one of Mike Shipley's knives based on the Well’s design with the power hacksaw blades. I got them directly from Mike when he was still taking direct orders. I still use that knife but he changed blades, styles, and names. That knife that I have does not look anything like what the others look like. In fact, it is a sort of ugly-looking one...but it works and got a good edge. I do not have OCC.

                    Treeline reported that the Shipley Knives were by far our best-selling carving knife. For the last few years, they have been discontinued but recently they were re-introduced by OCC Tools. This new generation of knives is made from O1 tool steel and go through a unique tempering process.
                    Last edited by DiLeon; 02-24-2022, 10:08 AM.
                    . Explore! Dream! Discover!” aloha Di

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                    • #25
                      The magnifier that I use is from amazon ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078MX3RZB...ing=UTF8&psc=1
                      John
                      ​​​​​
                      "Quality is not expensive. It is priceless!"

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                      • Claude
                        Claude commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Thanks!

                        Claude

                    • #26
                      My 10X loupe is a left over from a geology uni class I did. (T.Rex sat in the back row.)

                      The deal is to look at the edge in bright light to judge how folded/chipped/banged up it is.
                      If you aren't too wild, you ought to be able to begin with a few licks on 1,200 grit (6.5u).

                      I hone with CrOx/AlOx after 1500 grit. That's an edge good enough for very soft and easily crushed western red cedar. Another 30 minutes hand work and I can feel the edge "going away," in time for a little more honing.
                      Brian T

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                      • #27
                        For the people who have had problems with OCC knives/gouges when did you buy them?

                        I am wondering if it is a problem from a certain batch or time period. The OCC tools knife and gouges I have had been fine so far, but I have had them less than a year and I am just a part time whittler. I have also only used them on baswood so far.

                        B~

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                        • #28
                          Is there a liability then in dealing with a single blade smith?
                          I have 15 different sources of blades on my bench today.

                          Abrasives seem so arbitrary in size markings, if any.
                          The only maker that I know of with actual measured nominal grit size numbers is 3M.
                          They define the nominal (average?) grit particle sizes on their fine automotive wet&dry finishing sand papers. Lee Valley is a good source.

                          I'm told one water stone is 1000 grit, I'm told another one is 4000 grit.
                          All I'm prepared to believe is that one is finer than the other.

                          The carborundum stones in the hardware store are completely unmarked.
                          The blindfold, finger-tip test with a bunch of marked sandpapers showed me 80, 120 and 220.
                          I know what order to put them in for gross repairs and that's good enough.
                          Brian T

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                          • #29
                            [QUOTE=Brian T;n1215349]Is there a liability then in dealing with a single blade smith?
                            I have 15 different sources of blades on my bench today.

                            Honestly when you watch forging blades on TV and are tested on TV knife-making competitions. by using major means yes....tons of things can go wrong very easily. The blade can from great to bad in a few seconds. Bladesmiths do not test their blades to see if there is even temperature, even hardening, soft spots, and this list is endless. Good blades do not roll...nor chip that is a caused failure of the bladesmith of disqualification in competitions. Then comes the question of the person who bought the blade, ...did you over heat the blade and cause the metal to go soft for example using a power belt sander. Or did you sharpen the blade to thin? Who is in the wrong is a big question. I have lots of knives from different blades smiths and companies. Have never had a knife roll, I did have a good chisel break, ....looking at it now it had to be either bad metal or a crack in the tools to cause a failure like that but at that time I did not know a lot about forge metal or the ABC of tool and steelworks. Like you that I have lots of different knives made from various sources.
                            . Explore! Dream! Discover!” aloha Di

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                            • #30
                              Dileon posted:

                              Ok I stand corrected, I have one of Mike Shipley's knives based on the Well’s design with the power hacksaw blades. I got them directly from Mike when he was still taking direct orders. I still use that knife but he changed blades, styles, and names. That knife that I have does not look anything like what the others look like. In fact, it is a sort of ugly-looking one...but it works and got a good edge. I do not have OCC.

                              Treeline reported that the Shipley Knives were by far our best-selling carving knife. For the last few years, they have been discontinued but recently they were re-introduced by OCC Tools. This new generation of knives is made from O1 tool steel and go through a unique tempering process.
                              I am beginning to wonder if this might be the key to the OCCT products.

                              I recently read from here: https://alaskawoodcarvings.com/2021/10/05/knives/ Ron Wells' knives were "ground from a power hacksaw blade which is made from molybdenum alloy steel".

                              I have an OCCT WK-11 knife which is made from O1 tool steel.

                              Dallas Deege also makes his Ron Wells style knife from O1 tool steel.

                              After seeing this thread, (I'm not a metallurgist but) I did break out my old Machinery Handbook which has a pretty extensive explanation of metals, annealing hardening, Rockwell Hardness, etc. I'm not going to get too deep into this because my eye lids are getting heavy even as I type this.

                              But my take on this--and please correct me if I'm wrong--is the HSS (high speed steel) blade that Ron Wells used is more stable than the O1 steel that others are using. But there are also variables that come into play are the techniques used in changing the metal stock into the finished blade.

                              I hear of people that use different methods--some soften the stock, shape/grind it into an almost finished blade, harden by quenching, and then sharpen to a finished blade.

                              The quenching process alone could cause the blade to become brittle. There is chemistry involved, and depending on whether you use room temperature water, heated water, or oil as you coolant, you can get different results that could lead to microscopic fractures in the blade's edge. By using a secondary bevel, rather than a flat grind from the spine to the blade's edge, you leave more metal to support the blue's edge.

                              I have done my amateurish attempts at making knives--some good, some not so good. I typically take the metal, and grind (gently as to avoid bluing of the metal--learned the hard way) and dip in water until I get what I'm looking for. But I have noticed the difference in the metals I've used when doing the final sharpening. I have made good knives from higher quality reciprocating saw blades like the Starret HSS molybdenum blades. I've made not so great knives from cheap reciprocating saw blades. I've made some from old kitchen knives. I've made some from steel from who knows where. And I have bought O1 steel and made a few knives.

                              The point being is that I can feel the softness in the O1 steel knives versus the hardness in the HSS molybdenum blade. It takes longer when I am sharpening the Moly steel blade--and to clarify, I use the scary sharp method for sharpening after I have rough shaped the bevel by grinding on a power hand grinder--some with a stone, some with coarse sandpaper.

                              So, I have digressed along the way here, but I think the variables I've mentioned are key to the making of a knife or tool. My own experience in researching a particular knife led me to be interested in this thread. The knife I have been looking at for a while now has reviews made over years. Initially, the reviews were raves. Lately, the reviews have been poor. The knife has been made with O1 steel all along. So, what happened?

                              So, in conclusion, I am going to replicate what I know of Ron Wells knife making, and see if I can make the Ron Wells Knife I've always wanted but never bought. I will use a new Starret HSS molybdenum blade and I will take my time. The 40 dollars plus S&H I save from buying the knife I've been looking at will offset the time I spend making the knife.

                              I enjoy making knives. If I can come up with a solid and consistent technique using the methods I choose--basic with minimal power tools (much like the old timers did back in the day), I bet I can make one great knife to replace all of the knives I have.

                              As always, I come here to learn. So, feel free to help me learn more.

                              Thanks for reading,
                              BobL
                              Last edited by Just Carving; 02-27-2022, 08:17 AM. Reason: changed strength to speed in "HSS (high speed steel)"

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