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Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

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  • Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

    I just took a 1 mm chip out of a newly (and new) sharpened 6 mm V-tool and
    thinking my fault. Brand new Ashley Iles palm tool. I ground new
    side bevels, about 14 deg each side and the apex, given a nice 13 deg
    starting cutting angle, and still pretty low when cutting almost as deep
    as the tool. Just a couple good deep test cuts and... *tink*.

    The reason for re-doing the bevels is because I had to hold it about 40-50 deg
    (like vertical almost) to cut deep. I tried merging bevels but there was
    just no way to keep it from riding up as I went over 1/3 the depth of the
    tool. The original bevels were about 23 deg, with the apex ground even
    higher at 27 deg, which seemed backward to me.

    You can see the chip, and on the other bevel the edge is a little wavy
    were there appears to be a very minute bellying of the inside grind, but
    that should not affect my carvings.

    I am thinking about regrinding at 17 deg bevels and apex, and being a lot
    more careful not to dig to deep in a single cut. The Ashley Iles might be
    ground from drill blank type stock, which would make them very hard, and a
    bit brittle. Does any of this make sense?
    Attached Files
    Last edited by EugeneH; 10-13-2015, 02:33 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

    That\'s a big chip! In terms of brittleness, I don\'t think the steel used makes as much of a difference as the heat treat.
    Terry

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    • #3
      Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

      too thin a bevel no doubt. You should be safe at 17-19 degrees. You could try 12 degree main bevel and a 17 degree secondary bevel.
      Buffalo Bif
      bflobif.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

        Depending on the type of wood, it might be wiser to take shallower cuts.
        Bill K.
        Every day should be unwrapped like a precious gift.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

          BB: you are suggesting the side and apex bevels hitting the wood at 17 deg, with a 12 deg bevel behind it, correct?

          Glad it is a consensuses that I am on the right track for a the new angle and cutting shallower.

          Even though it was cross-grain cut in basswood I should not have tried to go 2/3 deep in a single cut. I just wanted to see what would happen. Now I know. Sheesh.


          Correction on tool size - it is a 3/16 (4.7mm), not 6mm.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

            I had a similar experience with a Pfeil #9-7mm gouge. I was doing a deep vertical cut in oak. After reworking the edge, I have had no problems with chipping, so Buffalo Bif may have the cause - faulty heat treating.
            We had a prior discussion of the bevel angles on #11 U-gouges. The apex bevel is much longer than the side bevels, especially on small sweeps.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

              All carving tools with a high Rockwell are going to be a bit brittle. Espesaly when working hard woods. Having had to regrined my share of chipped edges I have stopped going for the deep cuts with small tool. Three or for shallow passes takes less time than a regrined and is cheaper.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

                I think the point is that the heat treatment is incorporated into the tool design. Some times, they screw that up. \"They\" as in \"Pfeil.\" I have a 5/35 which is soft when compared to my 2/30. My 9/15 is indestructable = can\'t believe the abuse it can take. In any case, V-tools and all, they all came from the factory at 20 degrees, single bevels. That works very well for me.
                Brian T

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                • #9
                  Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

                  Eugene, that is correct. bevel at 12 degrees or so, then ad a small bevel at 17 degrees or so. 17 degree bevel can be so small as to be (nearly) invisible. When you reground the bevel first time, did the edge heat up- blue or red?
                  Buffalo Bif
                  bflobif.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

                    Originally posted by Buffalo Bif View Post
                    When you reground the bevel first time, did the edge heat up- blue or red?
                    Nope, never more than slightly warm to the touch. I used a slow rpm WS 3000, took me about 4 hours. I went pretty slow and careful.

                    I did notice a dark line right in the apex when I flattened the end of the V-tool, will check this more carefully so see if it is a fracture or bad grind from the factory. Hope I can start on it again today.
                    Last edited by EugeneH; 10-14-2015, 02:58 PM. Reason: ///// !

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                    • #11
                      Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

                      I am assuming for the moment the heat treat is as designed and I was being abusive for such a low angle. (now whether it is optimal is a different subject. :-) Sometimes better to have a edge require a little more maintenance instead of chipping. Two of my kitchen knifes have a very hard core and get tiny chips from twisting on the cutting board.)

                      But I like the way very hard steels take an edge but keep forgetting they might not be as tough.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

                        Originally posted by Robson Valley View Post
                        ... In any case, V-tools and all, they all came from the factory at 20 degrees, single bevels. That works very well for me.
                        With the chisel sides of the v-tool at 20 deg, what angle are you cutting at when, say, 2/3 the depth of a 4 - 6 mm tool? Nearly 40-50 deg like I had, or is the tool ground different by the heels?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

                          Ground out the chip and reset the bevels last night and am very pleased with the process and result. I spent only an hour this time. :-)

                          Double checking the side bevel angle by measuring the tool rest height and length of the chisel, I was at 10 deg, not 13 deg as I had thought. Now I am at 17 deg, again dependent on the accuracy of the measurements. When attempting to put a merging bevel I started taking off too much and almost blew the keel, which now is short at the cutting angle and long at a lower angle behind it. Oooops. But does not seem to affect the tracking.

                          The cutting angle is a bit high but really smooth and easy to push through cross grain, and clean on end grain, so calling this one good.

                          Thanks everyone for your assistance. I\'m no longer frustrated with the process of getting good edges on the tool.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

                            That sure looks like a big chip. Maybe stand it straight up to get the 2 sides even and straight, then concentrate on getting the side angels and bottom correct. I do mine on an oil stone by hand as it does not heat up the thin edges. Hope this helps, and yes it does take time.
                            Carve On,
                            Kadiddle

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Chipped my new Ashley Iles 3/16 V-Chisel....ooops

                              tip- when it comes to measuring angles, I relax and estimate the angle like \'they\' used to- compare the thickness at the back of the bevel with the length of the bevel. 30 degrees = 2:1, 18 degrees = 3:1, ~13 degrees = 4:1 So a 1/16\" thick 1 1/4\" long bevel is around 13 degrees. Once I establish the main bevel I just raise the edge a bit on the last pass over my 1200 grit diamond, hone and test. If the edge seems weak or won\'t hold an edge I raise it a bit more and hone again until I\'m happy.
                              Buffalo Bif
                              bflobif.com

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